Bollocks to Brexit

Not cycling, but still important.
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Joan
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Joan » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago
My fear is this...

1. Boris submits plan that he knows will fail.
2. Parliament votes through Benn Amendment
3. BREXIT gets delayed.
4. GE called / No confidence
5. Boris whips up a storm blaming the EU and Parliament
6. The Gammon become motivated.
7. Boris wins
If that happened, I wouldn't be happy, but at least it would be democracy - or at least as close as our system can get. People would be voting with their eyes open, and will understand the consequences. I'd shut up at that point.

Frankly, we would deserve whatever happens next.
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ransos
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by ransos » 1 week ago

Iris wrote:
1 week ago
A straightforward "there are none I think are valid" would have done.
I'm not at all sure why you're so determined to be such a bell end.
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Greg
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Greg » 1 week ago

Joan wrote:
1 week ago
If that happened, I wouldn't be happy, but at least it would be democracy - or at least as close as our system can get. People would be voting with their eyes open, and will understand the consequences. I'd shut up at that point.

Frankly, we would deserve whatever happens next.
I wouldn't, its outright manipulation.
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Iris
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 1 week ago

JohnToo wrote:
1 week ago
There are many good reasons why belonging to the EU does harm to all sorts of liberal and progressive causes. I rehearsed some of those upthread, and you engaged me on them at the time, so I know you know what they are.
You presume too much about my memory, and the search function appears not to be able to do "search for all posts by User X in this thread".

My extremely rusty and unreliable memory of every conversation I've had about this is that all the "good reasons why belonging to the EU does harm to all sorts of liberal and progressive causes" boil down to "we can't have nationalised industry while we're in the EU", which is inaccurate. If I've oversimplified, please enlighten me.
JohnToo wrote:
1 week ago
Presumably what you are saying is that none of the detriments of belonging to the EU are big enough to justify the costs of leaving. I happen to agree, but it's a judgement call, and I recognise that intelligent, thoughtful people can take the opposite view. Whereas, are you really saying that every single person who support leave is completely deluded?
(a) No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you poke the supposed (leftwing) "valid reasons to leave" they fall over - because they are things that people claim you can't do within the EU which you actually can do, or could easily do if you tried. And you don't even need to poke the supposed rightwing "valid reasons to leave" to make them fall over because they're vacuous or simply obviously factually wrong ("Laws forced on us by Brussels", "Take back control", "£350m per week").

(b) And by claiming that I'm saying that "every single person who supports leave is completely deluded" you're putting words into my mouth I didn't, and would never, say. Please don't do that.
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Greg
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Greg » 1 week ago



An MP with integrity. Tory flavour too. Whoda'thought.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago


An MP with integrity. Tory flavour too. Whoda'thought.
How Rory Stewart voted on Social Issues
Generally voted against laws to promote equality and human rights

How Rory Stewart voted on Foreign Policy and Defence
Almost always voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations
Voted against investigations into the Iraq
Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons
Generally voted against more EU integration
Generally voted for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU
Generally voted against strengthening the Military Covenant (yep – you read that right!)
Almost always voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK
Generally voted against UK membership of the EU

How Rory Stewart voted on Welfare and Benefits
Generally voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax")
Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices
Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
Almost always voted for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support
Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
Generally voted against spending public money to create guaranteed jobs for young people who have spent a long time unemployed

How Rory Stewart voted on Taxation and Employment
Almost always voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000
Generally voted against a banker’s bonus tax
Almost always voted for more restrictive regulation of trade union activity
Almost always voted for reducing capital gains tax

How Rory Stewart voted on Business and the Economy
Almost always voted for reducing the rate of corporation tax
Almost always voted for new high speed rail infrastructure

How Rory Stewart voted on Health
Consistently voted against restricting the provision of services to private patients by the NHS
Consistently voted for reforming the NHS so GPs buy services on behalf of their patients
Almost always voted against smoking bans

How Rory Stewart voted on Education
Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per
Consistently voted for academy schools
Consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education
Consistently voted for university tuition fees.

How Rory Stewart voted on Constitutional Reform
Almost always voted for reducing central government funding of local government
Generally voted against a more proportional system for electing MPs
Almost always voted against transferring more powers to the Welsh Assembly
Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament
Generally voted against more powers for local councils
Generally voted against a lower voting age

How Rory Stewart voted on Home Affairs
Consistently voted for a stricter asylum system
Consistently voted for stronger enforcement of immigration rules
Consistently voted for requiring the mass retention of information about communications
Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities

How Rory Stewart voted on Environmental Issues
Generally voted against measures to prevent climate change
Consistently voted for selling England’s state owned forests
Generally voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods
Generally voted for culling badgers to tackle bovine tuberculosis
Generally voted against greater regulation of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) to extract shale gas
Almost always voted for new high speed rail infrastructure

How Rory Stewart voted on Transport
Almost always voted against greater public control of bus services
Almost always voted against slowing the rise in rail fares
Generally voted against a publicly owned railway system

How Rory Stewart voted on Housing
Consistently voted for phasing out secure tenancies for life
Almost always voted for charging a market rent to high earners renting a council home

How Rory Stewart voted on Miscellaneous Topics
Consistently voted against greater regulation of gambling
Generally voted for the privatisation of Royal Mail
Generally voted against requiring pub companies to offer pub landlords rent-only leases
Generally voted for restricting the scope of legal aid
Consistently voted against restrictions on fees charged to tenants by letting agents


You'll have to forgive me if I don't shed a fecking tear for his political demise...
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Greg
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Greg » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
How Rory Stewart voted on Social Issues
Generally voted against laws to promote equality and human rights

How Rory Stewart voted on Foreign Policy and Defence
Almost always voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations
Voted against investigations into the Iraq
Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons
Generally voted against more EU integration
Generally voted for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU
Generally voted against strengthening the Military Covenant (yep – you read that right!)
Almost always voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK
Generally voted against UK membership of the EU

How Rory Stewart voted on Welfare and Benefits
Generally voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax")
Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices
Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
Almost always voted for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support
Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
Generally voted against spending public money to create guaranteed jobs for young people who have spent a long time unemployed

How Rory Stewart voted on Taxation and Employment
Almost always voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000
Generally voted against a banker’s bonus tax
Almost always voted for more restrictive regulation of trade union activity
Almost always voted for reducing capital gains tax

How Rory Stewart voted on Business and the Economy
Almost always voted for reducing the rate of corporation tax
Almost always voted for new high speed rail infrastructure

How Rory Stewart voted on Health
Consistently voted against restricting the provision of services to private patients by the NHS
Consistently voted for reforming the NHS so GPs buy services on behalf of their patients
Almost always voted against smoking bans

How Rory Stewart voted on Education
Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per
Consistently voted for academy schools
Consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education
Consistently voted for university tuition fees.

How Rory Stewart voted on Constitutional Reform
Almost always voted for reducing central government funding of local government
Generally voted against a more proportional system for electing MPs
Almost always voted against transferring more powers to the Welsh Assembly
Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament
Generally voted against more powers for local councils
Generally voted against a lower voting age

How Rory Stewart voted on Home Affairs
Consistently voted for a stricter asylum system
Consistently voted for stronger enforcement of immigration rules
Consistently voted for requiring the mass retention of information about communications
Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities

How Rory Stewart voted on Environmental Issues
Generally voted against measures to prevent climate change
Consistently voted for selling England’s state owned forests
Generally voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods
Generally voted for culling badgers to tackle bovine tuberculosis
Generally voted against greater regulation of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) to extract shale gas
Almost always voted for new high speed rail infrastructure

How Rory Stewart voted on Transport
Almost always voted against greater public control of bus services
Almost always voted against slowing the rise in rail fares
Generally voted against a publicly owned railway system

How Rory Stewart voted on Housing
Consistently voted for phasing out secure tenancies for life
Almost always voted for charging a market rent to high earners renting a council home

How Rory Stewart voted on Miscellaneous Topics
Consistently voted against greater regulation of gambling
Generally voted for the privatisation of Royal Mail
Generally voted against requiring pub companies to offer pub landlords rent-only leases
Generally voted for restricting the scope of legal aid
Consistently voted against restrictions on fees charged to tenants by letting agents


You'll have to forgive me if I don't shed a fecking tear for his political demise...
So he followed the whip? <shrugs>
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Iris
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago
So he followed the whip? <shrugs>
Quite. "MP votes with party policy" is hardly news. Even the serial rebels now in charge of Labour followed the whip most of the time for most of their career. Isn't there an anecdote about a couple of backbenchers being offended when a guest of theirs in a Westminster bar had the temerity to ask them what the vote they'd just been summoned for was about?
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Greg
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Greg » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago


An MP with integrity. Tory flavour too. Whoda'thought.
Oh

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Iris
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago
Oh

That sound you can hear is Momentum backpedalling as they realise Stewart might be their best chance of getting rid of their hated Sadiq Khan...
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Joan
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Joan » 1 week ago

MOD HAT ON:

I've had a couple of reports of about posts in this thread. I am reluctant to start censoring posts, because: it would be nearly impossible to do it fairly; even if I did do it "fairly", it would be still be perceived as unfair; if our tiny community can't moderate it's own speech, then it's not going last much longer no matter what action I take.

So, PLEASE, try not to use abusive language against other members AND try not to say things that might anger someone to the point of swearing at you.

There are less than 20 of us active on this forum. A fissure would surely spell the end of it, and leave half a dozen of us (or them, I am not sure which side I would end up on) discussing fuzzy bunnies as the light dies.
If you want to discuss this further, please start a thread in the members only area.
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Joan
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Joan » 1 week ago

Apparently Rory Stewart actually resigned last night at the Albert Hall at Letters Live, just before reading this to a packed auditorium

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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago
So he followed the whip? <shrugs>

Ah - the Nuremberg defence. Such a good indication of integrity...
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Iris
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
Ah - the Nuremberg defence. Such a good indication of integrity...
No - the Nuremberg defence was in the face of charges of committing or enabling mass murder and genocide. Which is rather different from doing one's job as an MP.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 1 week ago

Iris wrote:
1 week ago
No - the Nuremberg defence was in the face of charges of committing or enabling mass murder and genocide. Which is rather different from doing one's job as an MP.
Tell that the families of the tens of thousands who have died as a result of the policies he voted for...
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