Bollocks to Brexit

Not cycling, but still important.
Iris
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
Tell that the families of the tens of thousands who have died as a result of the welfare changes he voted for...
https://fullfact.org/health/130000-prev ... austerity/

As usual the truth is a bit more complex than a slogan or a cheap headline. In any case, drawing a parallel between a failure to improve public health and the deliberate slaughter of millions is not worthy of you. There are enough effective arguments against austerity and Tory policy that you don't need to reach for hyperbole.
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Regulator
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 1 week ago

Iris wrote:
1 week ago
https://fullfact.org/health/130000-prev ... austerity/

As usual the truth is a bit more complex than a slogan or a cheap headline. In any case, drawing a parallel between a failure to improve public health and the deliberate slaughter of millions is not worthy of you. There are enough effective arguments against austerity and Tory policy that you don't need to reach for hyperbole.
It’s not hyperbole. The Full Fact reference you link to was looking at one set of claims based on a particular report.

There have been multiple reports which have demonstrated deaths related to government policies - including reports from government departments.
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Greg
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Greg » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
Ah - the Nuremberg defence. Such a good indication of integrity...
Godwins. I win.
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The Real Ravenhurst
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by The Real Ravenhurst » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
It’s not hyperbole. The Full Fact reference you link to was looking at one set of claims based on a particular report.

There have been multiple reports which have demonstrated deaths related to government policies - including reports from government departments.
In keeping with Joan's appeal for a spirit of peace, you are surely both right? The Tories can be culpable for deaths due to their policies and expected to answer for it, but it is still not really the same as genocide. I would like to see Iain Duncan Smith locked up though, the colossal pervert.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 1 week ago

Surely Boris hasn't been lying when he's been telling Parliament, the media, the DUP, the ERG, his financial backers and the public that he won't ask for another extension? Surely not...

BennAct submission.jpg

(From the Government lawyer's submission to the Court of Session today)
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Greg
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Greg » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
Surely Boris hasn't been lying when he's been telling Parliament, the media, the DUP, the ERG, his financial backers and the public that he won't ask for another extension? Surely not...


BennAct submission.jpg


(From the Government lawyer's submission to the Court of Session today)
Maybe he's now dead in a ditch?
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago
Maybe he's now dead in a ditch?
The Met are combing St James' Park as we speak...
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Joan
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Joan » 1 week ago

Greg wrote:
1 week ago
Maybe he's now dead in a ditch?
How would they tell?
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JohnToo
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 1 week ago

Iris wrote:
1 week ago
You presume too much about my memory, and the search function appears not to be able to do "search for all posts by User X in this thread".

My extremely rusty and unreliable memory of every conversation I've had about this is that all the "good reasons why belonging to the EU does harm to all sorts of liberal and progressive causes" boil down to "we can't have nationalised industry while we're in the EU", which is inaccurate. If I've oversimplified, please enlighten me.



(a) No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you poke the supposed (leftwing) "valid reasons to leave" they fall over - because they are things that people claim you can't do within the EU which you actually can do, or could easily do if you tried. And you don't even need to poke the supposed rightwing "valid reasons to leave" to make them fall over because they're vacuous or simply obviously factually wrong ("Laws forced on us by Brussels", "Take back control", "£350m per week").

(b) And by claiming that I'm saying that "every single person who supports leave is completely deluded" you're putting words into my mouth I didn't, and would never, say. Please don't do that.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but when you say that every argument you've heard for leaving falls over when poked, that still sounds to me like saying that the people who want to leave for those reasons are deluded?

Me, I voted and support remain, I think leave under the present circumstances spells disaster, but I can hold those positions and still recognise that are valid arguments for leave, and leave, under other circumstances, could have been a reasonable choice.

I think one of the different approaches you and I have is that you are more inclined to take an organisation at face value for what it says about itself, whereas I am more inclined to judge by the proof of the pudding. This applies to both the EU and Cyclibg UK!
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Mister Paul
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Mister Paul » 1 week ago

Regulator wrote:
1 week ago
Surely Boris hasn't been lying when he's been telling Parliament, the media, the DUP, the ERG, his financial backers and the public that he won't ask for another extension? Surely not...


BennAct submission.jpg


(From the Government lawyer's submission to the Court of Session today)
What's the loophole that they're talking about?
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Sonic Budgie
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Sonic Budgie » 1 week ago

As read elsewhere, submitted for the constitutional experts.
Johnson has Queens speech, speech is debated, voted down, Johnson resigns, doesn't have to write letter.
All the above with added intrigue of no GNU being formed due to insufficient support for any candidate, no PM to write letter, crash out.
Johnson doesn't write letter, we still leave at the end of the month.
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Mister Paul
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Mister Paul » 1 week ago

According to Femi Boris has just met with Hungary, the concern being that he's trying to persuade a member to object to the extension.
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LowlifeDes
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 1 week ago

Mister Paul wrote:
1 week ago
According to Femi Boris has just met with Hungary, the concern being that he's trying to persuade a member to object to the extension.
Surely not. That sounds a bit too close to treason for comfort.
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Rutabaga
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Rutabaga » 1 week ago

Just when I needed cheering up, I stumbled across this :-)

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JohnToo
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 1 week ago

Came across this in something I was reading:

"To practise such wrestling is to choose to hold on through the division that is polarising our society... But we do not wrestle simply to prove our rightness or our righteousness. We wrestle to a place of understanding that equips us for reconciliation with those we disagree with or are fearful of. We hold on until the blessings of welcome, security and reconciliation are known by all."

(written primarily in the context of migration but has relevance to Brexit I feel too)
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