UK politics

[Mister Paul]

I've just been told that Disgraced Former Defence Secretary Liam Fox stopped someone trying to live stream the hustings last night.

[JohnToo]

Our neighbours put up a Conservative placard in their front garden. We discussed quite seriously what to do. Put up our own Labour (me on principle) and LibDem (my wife tactically voting) placards next to it? Remove it in the dead of night? Deface it ("Paul Beresford, working for everyone in Mole Valley rich selfish people")? Fortunately, it turns out that Paul Beresford can't stand up to a small wind....

[Greg]

[JohnToo]

So I have a dilemma: should I vote tactically for Lib Dem or not?

My constituency is usually regarded as safe Tory and I've never felt any problem at voting Labour. I strongly suspect that the same applies this time, that the odious Tory will get back in comfortably, and I should vote Labour once again.

But there's just a remote outside chance of a Lib Dem upset. There's some local vibe of people getting fed up with our MP's arrogance and complacency, there's talk of some remainer Tories defecting, and there's a very well organised and funded Independent (who is effectively Brexit Party incognito) who I guess may take away a few votes.

If the result is, against the odds, close, would I ever forgive myself if I hadn't voted Lib Dem?
If, the most likely outcome by far, the conservative gets back in, would I ever forgive myself for not voting a principled Labour if I do vote tactically?

[Joan]

I am strong remain supporter in a current Lib Dem seat (which occasionally goes Tory), so tactical and actual voting are the same thing for me. I realised the other day that I am so pro-remain, that I would probably vote Lib Dem even if that might help a Tory win a seat. Brexit is a windmill I feel obliged to tilt at.

So, in your situation, I would probably vote Labour. But PLEASE vote tactically, if Labour are really without any real chance!

[Iris]

So I have a dilemma: should I vote tactically for Lib Dem or not?

Yes. In a heartbeat.

However outside the chance, those of us who are not Tories need to ditch any tribal loyalty and vote for the candidate most likely to oust them.

I think the lib Dems have run a lousy campaign, and I'm not convinced that an economically centre right prescription is any more sensible than a sudden and immediate lurch to socialism or Randism. But outside of economics there's a hair's breadth between the centres of gravity of the progressive party.

Brexit is for life. In most of the home counties if you want any chance to stop it and any chance to topple the worst, most untrustworthy, most odious PM of our lifetimes you need to vote Lib Dem. And if it fails this election it will give them the confidence to organise for the next one (see Guildford, St Alban's, Esher).

[Iris]

If I lived a few miles further southwest or southeast I'd be doing what I once believed I'd never do, and vote for someone who until recently was a Tory cabinet minister.

That's how important it is to vote for the candidate best placed to give Boris Johnson's fan club a metaphorical bloody nose.

Two very different articles to stiffen the sinews:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... eve-coogan

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... onary-sect

[Dunckel]

As above, do what best gets Boris out of Downing Street.

[Regulator]

I am strong remain supporter in a current Lib Dem seat (which occasionally goes Tory), so tactical and actual voting are the same thing for me. I realised the other day that I am so pro-remain, that I would probably vote Lib Dem even if that might help a Tory win a seat. Brexit is a windmill I feel obliged to tilt at.

So, in your situation, I would probably vote Labour. But PLEASE vote tactically, if Labour are really without any real chance!

Wise words...

The three main reputable remain-focused tactical voting sites are now working together and giving consistent advice. If in doubt see what they say.

www.remainunited.org
https://www.bestforbritain.org/
https://www.peoples-vote.uk/

[Mister Paul]

I do t know what to do here. Liam is going to get in. I don't think that voting either Lib Dem or Labour is going to make a difference.

[JohnToo]

All three of those sites say any tactical voting in our constituency should be for LibDem, which is pretty obvious. But they are also all predicting that even with tactical voting, the conservatives would get in. We are usually considered a safe seat. If there was even an outside chance of local factors swaying things LibDem, I'd hold my nose and tactically vote with enthusiasm - I've done just that in local elections. But when, on all sensible prognostications, it wouldn't work, I'm buggered if I want to be responsible for giving one more vote nationally to the odious Swinson and one fewer vote to Corbyn.

[LowlifeDes]

The problem with any such considerations is that, once you have cast your vote, you lose any control over it. Any nuance that you put on your decision disappears and others interpret it as they will.

[Regulator]

All three of those sites say any tactical voting in our constituency should be for LibDem, which is pretty obvious. But they are also all predicting that even with tactical voting, the conservatives would get in. We are usually considered a safe seat. If there was even an outside chance of local factors swaying things LibDem, I'd hold my nose and tactically vote with enthusiasm - I've done just that in local elections. But when, on all sensible prognostications, it wouldn't work, I'm buggered if I want to be responsible for giving one more vote nationally to the odious Swinson and one fewer vote to Corbyn.

I’ve had to hold my nose and (ask my proxy to) vote for the Lib Dem’s, who are in with a chance of beating the Tory candidate (a racist, homophobic ex-aide to The Turd In The Fridge).

[Dunckel]

There have been many fridge based memes today, my favourite being:

[Iris]

The problem with any such considerations is that, once you have cast your vote, you lose any control over it. Any nuance that you put on your decision disappears and others interpret it as they will.

Which is how we got into this shitstorm - every vote for Labour last time was "counted" as a vote for Brexit.

Looking at North Somerset illustrates the fuckup nicely. According to YouGov's big maths box (https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2019/) Labour + LibDem + Green together could easily squeeze out Fox on a not too extreme version of the vote. So why haven't they agreed to put up a single candidate?

I was leafleted this morning on my way into the station by the Labour party. Who haven't a prayer here - they will be in a very very weak third place. Again - why? Why spend money on a candidate and leaflets?

A vote for a candidate representing a party you wouldn't normally support is a vote for a change to a better politics.