UK politics

Not cycling, but still important.
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Joan
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Re: UK politics

Post by Joan » 7 months ago

It's just emphasising how we got the results on the 2 referenda wrong. Preferential voting would have eliminated all this tactical nonsense.

(I read once that it had never changed a result in Australia, but then I don't think Australia has had a single issue quite like Brexit)
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Mister Paul
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Re: UK politics

Post by Mister Paul » 7 months ago

Iris wrote:
7 months ago
Which is how we got into this shitstorm - every vote for Labour last time was "counted" as a vote for Brexit.

Looking at North Somerset illustrates the fuckup nicely. According to YouGov's big maths box (https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2019/) Labour + LibDem + Green together could easily squeeze out Fox on a not too extreme version of the vote. So why haven't they agreed to put up a single candidate?

I was leafleted this morning on my way into the station by the Labour party. Who haven't a prayer here - they will be in a very very weak third place. Again - why? Why spend money on a candidate and leaflets?

A vote for a candidate representing a party you wouldn't normally support is a vote for a change to a better politics.
I asked the Lib Dem candidate last week. He said he was up for an alliance but that there wasn't an appetite from head office. He was talking about doing things properly next time and getting the public to pick an opposition candidate from the three of them.
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The Real Ravenhurst
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Re: UK politics

Post by The Real Ravenhurst » 7 months ago

JohnToo wrote:
7 months ago
So I have a dilemma: should I vote tactically for Lib Dem or not?

My constituency is usually regarded as safe Tory and I've never felt any problem at voting Labour. I strongly suspect that the same applies this time, that the odious Tory will get back in comfortably, and I should vote Labour once again.

But there's just a remote outside chance of a Lib Dem upset. There's some local vibe of people getting fed up with our MP's arrogance and complacency, there's talk of some remainer Tories defecting, and there's a very well organised and funded Independent (who is effectively Brexit Party incognito) who I guess may take away a few votes.

If the result is, against the odds, close, would I ever forgive myself if I hadn't voted Lib Dem?
If, the most likely outcome by far, the conservative gets back in, would I ever forgive myself for not voting a principled Labour if I do vote tactically?
As long as it's not one of those seats where Lib Dems are misrepresenting who is the best-placed candidate to beat the Tory, then you've not much to lose by voting LD if there is a chance to boot a Tory out. I'd consider doing the same if I still lived in Surrey Heath. Labour were actually second there last time, so it's more than a bit galling to say this, but Tory voters there are not going to switch to Labour.
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Mister Paul
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Re: UK politics

Post by Mister Paul » 7 months ago

Liam went into the boys' school today. He was described as arrogant, rude, dismissive and patronising to them. He lied about his voting record. He then got stroppy with a teacher for asking him about the hospital photo.
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Re: UK politics

Post by JohnToo » 7 months ago

The Real Ravenhurst wrote:
7 months ago
As long as it's not one of those seats where Lib Dems are misrepresenting who is the best-placed candidate to beat the Tory, then you've not much to lose by voting LD if there is a chance to boot a Tory out. I'd consider doing the same if I still lived in Surrey Heath. Labour were actually second there last time, so it's more than a bit galling to say this, but Tory voters there are not going to switch to Labour.
That's it then - I'm doing it.

Our daughter now has a vote in Surrey Heath. We have been communicating.
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Re: UK politics

Post by JohnToo » 7 months ago

Mister Paul wrote:
7 months ago
I asked the Lib Dem candidate last week. He said he was up for an alliance but that there wasn't an appetite from head office. He was talking about doing things properly next time and getting the public to pick an opposition candidate from the three of them.
One of the reasons I find Swinson odious is that, despite all the rhetoric about stopping Brexit being the most important thing of all and all the new-found opposition to austerity, her actions show that she hates Corbyn more than she hates Brexit. She would rather deliver deliver the country to Johnson than recognise that Corbyn is actually the leader of the opposition.

I can't forget or (yet) forgive that we could have avoided the situation we are now facing if she had agreed to the plan for a vote of no confidence and a Corbyn-led GNU.
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Re: UK politics

Post by JohnToo » 7 months ago

Done.

I vented some of my feelings by walking up to the tellers and saying to the Lib Dem loud enough to be heard by all of them that I had voted tactically for his candidate and felt sick as a result. Petty, moi?
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Joan
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Re: UK politics

Post by Joan » 7 months ago

Bravo.

Not petty. Do whatever it takes to get you through.

Thanks.
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Re: UK politics

Post by JohnToo » 7 months ago

I see that particular teller quite often - he walks past our house to get his daily newspapers. At some point I will probably invite him for a cup of coffee, though actually articulating the word "sorry" may be a step too far :)
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ransos
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Re: UK politics

Post by ransos » 7 months ago

It's a condition of my employment that I don't publicly advocate for any political party, which is proving to be somewhat frustrating.

I can say that tactical voting is unlikely to be an issue in my constituency, given that it's been held continuously by Labour since 1935...
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Re: UK politics

Post by LowlifeDes » 7 months ago

Joan wrote:
7 months ago
It's just emphasising how we got the results on the 2 referenda wrong. Preferential voting would have eliminated all this tactical nonsense.

(I read once that it had never changed a result in Australia, but then I don't think Australia has had a single issue quite like Brexit)
There was this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_We ... referendum
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Re: UK politics

Post by Dunckel » 7 months ago

Done. That was the first time I have seen a proper queue at my polling station, I would hope that people are eager to make a point. However, I suspect it is because it has just stopped raining for the first time today.
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Joan
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Re: UK politics

Post by Joan » 7 months ago

Ah, miscommunication! I meant preferential voting never changed anything (this might not be true, but this is what I remember) that in every single poll in Australia, whomever got the most primary votes always ended up winning the election. What that statistic (or made up fact) can't tell us if the fact there was preferential voting allowed people to vote differently than they would have if they had to vote tactically.

A few things have changed with referenda, but not as many as you expect. Australians are very conservative, and vote for the status quo.

But thanks for the link! It's really interesting. I know very about civics; I never even knew the constitution was an act of British parliament - though of course it was, independence was granted, albeit grudgingly, and only the British would have the authority to create a new government.

That whole debacle is very reminiscent of Brexit.
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Joan
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Re: UK politics

Post by Joan » 7 months ago

I've just read a headline about exit polls. Bugger. That's it, I don't want the slow drip of news, I will turn of my news feeds and just absorb the horror in the morning.
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Dunckel
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Re: UK politics

Post by Dunckel » 7 months ago

Jess Phillips to be the next Labour Prime Minister. It might be in 10 years time, but fingers crossed.
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