Bollocks to Brexit

Not cycling, but still important.

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LowlifeDes
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 5 years ago

Would roundabout now be a good time for the ERG to publish the results of all their research?
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Rocky
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Rocky » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
Would roundabout now be a good time for the ERG to publish the results of all their research?
The first paper would be Prof Rees Mogg on how feudalism is good for your health.
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Dunckel
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Dunckel » 5 years ago

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Rocky
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Rocky » 5 years ago

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JohnToo
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
Or a better EU?
Well, in principle, clearly yes. But do you think there is (or for that matter was) the slightest chance of changing the whole culture of the EU in that way?
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 5 years ago

JohnToo wrote:
5 years ago
Well, in principle, clearly yes. But do you think there is (or for that matter was) the slightest chance of changing the whole culture of the EU in that way?
If the people want it, and communicate it via their elected MEPs, then yes a little bit.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
If the people want it, and communicate it via their elected MEPs, then yes a little bit.
Well, I think it’s deeper than just that, though clearly that’s a start. The culture of the EU is complex. I think the Commission has a lot to do with it, and like all civil services, they have a tendency to control, only they get more role in originating and shaping policy than certainly the UK civil service do. I also think the multi-stranded structure promotes a culture of lobbying by special interests including industry (i’ve done my bit at that) and the physical remoteness of Brussels from everyone’s home country loosens the sense of responsibility to electorates (and anyway MEPs are on average less significant players than MPs). I also think the more countries the EU acquires, the more that promotes a sense of the desperate need to keep control and order. Nanny knows best.

I (clearly) voted remain. But I think the fact that remaining in the EU is so manifestly better than leaving it in the way we are doing and getting more so all the time, leads to a kind of denial that there is also much wrong with the EU. If we ever have a third referendum and if we (remain) are to win it, we have to recognise that people can have real reasons for not liking the EU, including left leaning people.
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Rutabaga
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Rutabaga » 5 years ago

JohnToo wrote:
5 years ago
Well, in principle, clearly yes. But do you think there is (or for that matter was) the slightest chance of changing the whole culture of the EU in that way?
Not from outside it, no, none at all.
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Rocky
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Rocky » 5 years ago

I take a relativistic approach. The EU has many faults but on balance its benefits outweigh its downsides? Therefore let’s stay.

The reason why we haven’t had much influence can be summed up in the opening paragraphs of an article on charisma in the latest edition of Cambridge alumni magazine
515B0536-C8CD-4B41-BB3C-B4834ADC21F1.jpeg
Sorry about the quality
Last edited by Rocky on Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 5 years ago

JohnToo wrote:
5 years ago
Well, in principle, clearly yes. But do you think there is (or for that matter was) the slightest chance of changing the whole culture of the EU in that way?
To be honest, if your only complaint about the EU is that in one specific industry, on a narrow interpretation of the rules, the use of market forces to meet requirements rather than demand has been ruled illegal then you don't have the strongest of cases.

Because the European rules that I know best, and the specific implementation of them in the UK, look like extreme Corbynism in comparison to your Cameronian social Toryism.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 5 years ago

Iris wrote:
5 years ago
To be honest, if your only complaint about the EU is that in one specific industry, on a narrow interpretation of the rules, the use of market forces to meet requirements rather than demand has been ruled illegal then you don't have the strongest of cases.

Because the European rules that I know best, and the specific implementation of them in the UK, look like extreme Corbynism in comparison to your Cameronian social Toryism.
I agree that if that were my only complaint then I would have a weak case.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 5 years ago

Rocky wrote:
5 years ago
I take a relativistic approach. The EU has many faults but on balance its benefits outweigh its downsides? Therefore let’s stay.
Well, I agree, which is why I voted remain. But I don’t think we should let the fact that, of those two choices, remain is clearly better than leave, blind us to the limitations of only having those two choices.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 5 years ago

Our new SoS for Collective Self Harm...?

An absolute wanker according to those I’ve met who know him...
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Dunckel » 5 years ago

Regulator wrote:
5 years ago
Our new SoS for Collective Self Harm...?

An absolute wanker according to those I’ve met who know him...
Sorry Greg, I don't follow, who are we talking about?


For the record, my school has delivered two MPs and has been around since 1624*. They are Greg Hands and Dominic Raab. Greg Hands was in my Maths A level class and I have been drinking with him as a juvenile on a strictly "freind of a friend" basis. His younger sibling is a decent chap and best mates with my little brother, we sat next to each other at my bro's wedding. Greg is a grade A narcisist. Raab was a few years behind me but we attended school at the same time. By accounts he is a backstabber with few friends who as a 12 year old boasted that one day he would be PM.


* In nearly 400 years there are many distinguished military leaders, civil servants and ambassadors, plus Roger Moore. Challoner's boys are expert, but modest, except me and Roger Moore.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 5 years ago

Dunckel wrote:
5 years ago
Sorry Greg, I don't follow, who are we talking about?
Stephen Barclay, the member from North East Cambridgeshire and the new Brexit Bod.
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