Cycling Related

It appears that the tweet that has got him suspended again two days after being teadmitted to Labour was:

“Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”

Can someone please explain to me what’s going on here? I am seriously confused.

I can’t fathom it, given, I believe, the tweet is 6 years old.

The problem is (I think) is that because antisemitics use attacking Israel as a cover, any anti Israel statement is read as antisemitic.

But if that really is his only misstep over the last 6 years (or 30 years), then maybe his timing is just poor, and a moment where any thing perceived as antisemitism must be cauterised.

(I've never heard of him, so pinch of salt)

He made the mistake of calling out Jewish people to speak out, rather than everyone.

Hannah Jane Parkinson tells the back story well:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... for-labour

Even thinking about readmitting Hatton - ever - was a dreadful move by Labour. To do it on the day the inevitable finally happened and some of the most abused Labour MPs left was disastrous timing. To discover a couple of days later that he's had to be resuspended because of, as the Guardian report says "a tweet he posted in 2012 blaming Jews for Israeli government policy" - which is what it is - just makes them look incompetent and desperate.

(And if you don't think it is, imagine a tweet that says "Catholic people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless child abuse being carried out by the Vatican!" or "Muslim people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Al-Qaeda!”)

It was the chaos caused by Hatton in Liverpool that first alerted me to the fact that people on the far left of politics can be really unpleasant and complete hypocrites. It helped turn me off party politics.

Iris wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Hannah Jane Parkinson tells the back story well:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... for-labour

Even thinking about readmitting Hatton - ever - was a dreadful move by Labour. To do it on the day the inevitable finally happened and some of the most abused Labour MPs left was disastrous timing. To discover a couple of days later that he's had to be resuspended because of, as the Guardian report says "a tweet he posted in 2012 blaming Jews for Israeli government policy" - which is what it is - just makes them look incompetent and desperate.

(And if you don't think it is, imagine a tweet that says"Catholic people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless child abuse being carried out by the Vatican!" or "Muslim people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Al-Qaeda!”)

It was the chaos caused by Hatton in Liverpool that first alerted me to the fact that people on the far left of politics can be really unpleasant and complete hypocrites. It helped turn me off party politics.

MPs have basically stood up and said as much in Parliament ...

Regulator wrote: ↑

5 years ago

MPs have basically stood up and said as much in Parliament ...

I know. And as I have said elsewhere that doesn't stop it being racist.

I am apparently racist, because I consider each of “Jewish people...”, “Catholic people....” and “Muslim people... need to start speaking out...” as perfectly valid statements.

(If I were offering them, I would say “need to speak out more strongly..”, to avoid the implication that those groups are not already speaking out, but that is not, I think, where the objection lies.)

I identify as an Anglican. Anglicans in the “global south” are promoting poisonously homophobic positions. I am happy to be reminded that I have a responsibility to speak out against those views. I am a western white male. Western white males (see Trump, Weinstein, Neeson, etc ad nauseum) are racist and sexist. My membership of that grouping imposes a duty on me to register the unacceptableness of this.

JohnToo wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I am apparently racist, because I consider each of “Jewish people...”, “Catholic people....” and “Muslim people... need to start speaking out...” as perfectly valid statements.

(If I were offering them, I would say “need to speak out more strongly..”, to avoid the implication that those groups are not already speaking out, but that is not, I think, where the objection lies.)

I identify as an Anglican. Anglicans in the “global south” are promoting poisonously homophobic positions. I am happy to be reminded that I have a responsibility to speak out against those views. I am a western white male. Western white males (see Trump, Weinstein, Neeson, etc ad nauseum) are racist and sexist. My membership of that grouping imposes a duty on me to register the unacceptableness of this.

Me too...

It would have been better had he said that everyone should be speaking against it but especially Jewish people as their voices might carry more weight.

LowlifeDes wrote: ↑

5 years ago

It would have been better had he said that everyone should be speaking against it but especially Jewish people as their voices might carry more weight.

It would have been better. And we may speculate that he lumps all Jewish people together and blames them for many of the ills of the world. But the tweet he made, on its own, seems exceedingly slender grounds for suspension.

JohnToo wrote: ↑

5 years ago

It would have been better. And we may speculate that he lumps all Jewish people together and blames them for many of the ills of the world. But the tweet he made, on its own, seems exceedingly slender grounds for suspension.

I think part of the problem is that the State of Israel often suggests that it speaks or acts on behalf of the Jewish diaspora - not just Israelis. It's something of an ongoing debate within Israel itself as to what the state of Israel is for.

Is it legitimate to focus ire on someone like Hatton for using less than precise language in a tweet, when such imprecise language is used by others (whether it be the State of Israel, other Jewish individuals or groups, Islamic groups such as al-Qaeda or IS, the IRA or the Christian rights in the USA) when it suits them and their political aims?

JohnToo wrote: ↑

5 years ago

It would have been better. And we may speculate that he lumps all Jewish people together and blames them for many of the ills of the world. But the tweet he made, on its own, seems exceedingly slender grounds for suspension.

The Labour Party really doesn't need to be open to yet more accusations of anti-Semitism, and the one thing that any member can control is the precision of their communication, in order to reduce the opportunity for willful misinterpretation that will inevitably follow whenever possible.
Carelessly or deliberately, he put himself in the position where his words are open to that interpretation.

LowlifeDes wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The Labour Party really doesn't need to be open to yet more accusations of anti-Semitism, and the one thing that any member can control is the precision of their communication, in order to reduce the opportunity for willful misinterpretation that will inevitably follow whenever possible.
Carelessly or deliberately, he put himself in the position where his words are open to that interpretation.

But the Labour Party should also not be in the position of sacrificing members to appease a campaign against it...

Regulator wrote: ↑

5 years ago

But the Labour Party should also not be in the position of sacrificing members to appease a campaign against it...

I think that an exception can be made in this case.