TINGE to CHANGE

Not cycling, but still important.

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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Regulator » 1 year ago

Will the Party forgo funding from lobbyists or foreign governments?

Will they bar their MPs from accepting funding from lobbyists or foreign governments? Will they bar their MPs from colluding with foreign governments to attack other MPs?
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

Will vociferous and extremely partisan supporters of other parties give them a fair hearing and refrain from using anti-Semitic tropes to attack them?
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by ransos » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
Will vociferous and extremely partisan supporters of other parties give them a fair hearing and refrain from using anti-Semitic tropes to attack them?
Who is using anti Semitic tropes?

As for the rest of it, if it amounts to more than corporate bullshit and the dismally conservative voting record of its current MPs, then it may represent something useful and important.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by The Real Ravenhurst » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
Pretty changey
They should use that as their strapline. And perhaps add an 'actually'.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

Regulator wrote:
1 year ago
Will the Party forgo funding from lobbyists or foreign governments?

Will they bar their MPs from accepting funding from lobbyists or foreign governments? Will they bar their MPs from colluding with foreign governments to attack other MPs?
The answers to your questions are in the Electoral Commission's rules:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/ ... ons-rp.pdf

If you have any concerns that any political party isn't following the rules, you can report them.

And I'm sure you'll agree that "lobbyist" is a reasonably meaningless term, despite the efforts of government to define it, and that if you want to criticise individual MPs for receiving gifts and hospitality from foreign governments and advocacy groups on behalf of foreign governments you need to be entirely consistent.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Regulator » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
The answers to your questions are in the Electoral Commission's rules:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/ ... ons-rp.pdf

If you have any concerns that any political party isn't following the rules, you can report them.

And I'm sure you'll agree that "lobbyist" is a reasonably meaningless term, despite the efforts of government to define it, and that if you want to criticise individual MPs for receiving gifts and hospitality from foreign governments and advocacy groups on behalf of foreign governments you need to be entirely consistent.
I don’t recall Corbyn conspiring with an intelligence agent for a foreign power to undermine MPs that were seen as hostile to the power. I don’t believe he tried to get £1million slush fund set up by a foreign power.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

Regulator wrote:
1 year ago
I don’t recall Corbyn conspiring with an intelligence agent for a foreign power to undermine MPs that were seen as hostile to the power. I don’t believe he tried to get £1million slush fund set up by a foreign power.
Rather than insinuating and hinting and assuming that we all know what you're on about, why not tell us? It's probably a different thread.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by ransos » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
Rather than insinuating and hinting and assuming that we all know what you're on about, why not tell us? It's probably a different thread.
I could say the same about your earlier reference to anti semitism.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Regulator » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
Rather than insinuating and hinting and assuming that we all know what you're on about, why not tell us? It's probably a different thread.
I recommend you watch The Lobby.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

ransos wrote:
1 year ago
I could say the same about your earlier reference to anti semitism.
It was, as you know, a reference to the revolting bile spewed forth by some supporters of Jeremy Corbyn. It has resulted in several expulsions from the Labour Party, and has been allowed to fester for far too long. It also directly contributed to at least one of the resignations of an MP from the party.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

Regulator wrote:
1 year ago
I recommend you watch The Lobby.
There's a certain irony in recommending that I watch a programme made by a TV channel funded by one foreign state in order to find out about allegations about a different foreign state.

I'm sure you can precis the allegations in much less time than it would take to watch 4 25 minute episodes.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Regulator » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
There's a certain irony in recommending that I watch a programme made by a TV channel funded by one foreign state in order to find out about allegations about a different foreign state.

I'm sure you can precis the allegations in much less time than it would take to watch 4 25 minute episodes.
Episode 4 in particular shows how the Israeli Government was targeting MPs they didn’t like.

In Episode 3 you see Joan Ryan makes an appearance, when she fabricates an anti-Semitism allegation against a Palestinian Solidarity Campain volunteer at the Labour Party Conference

And it’s funny that, despite having quit the Labour Party and joined TINGE/ChangeUK, Joan Ryan remains chair of Labour Friends of Israel...
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

Thanks - I came across that. I have also, I confess, read the precis of the programmes provided by Qatar's propaganda mouthpiece - oops, I meant Al Jazeera. What I'm seeing from both is a few fragments of poor behaviour spun into a massive web of conspiracy, and certainly nothing substantial to add up to the allegations made by Reg.

The concrete facts seem to be that there was a moderately inept Israeli spy in the UK who was trying to corrupt useful idiots, and that Israel funded visits by MPs to Israel, all to counter the entirely sensible call to boycott the Israeli economy (something I've tried to do for as long as I've been politically aware). Guess what - Jeremy Corbyn visited Iran as a guest of the Iranian government, and visited Palestine as a guest of lobbyists for the Palestinian authority.

None of that is wrong, but it would be good to see an acknowledgement that MPs are human and make human decisions, some of which are right, some of which are wrong.

[edit in the light of Reg's latest]

I rather suspect that every developed economy government, and many less developed economy governments attempt to "target" (or, to use a less loaded term, influence) politicians around the world. It's a fact of life.

I can't comment on the allegations around Ryan and the allegedly fabricated allegation - but I would trust Al Jazeera to be unbiassed about as far as I'd trust Russia Today. I'd also note that Labour, even as it dragged its heels on dealing with Ken Livingstone, quickly decided that Ryan had no case to answer.
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Re: TINGE to CHANGE

Post by ransos » 1 year ago

Iris wrote:
1 year ago
It was, as you know, a reference to the revolting bile spewed forth by some supporters of Jeremy Corbyn. It has resulted in several expulsions from the Labour Party, and has been allowed to fester for far too long. It also directly contributed to at least one of the resignations of an MP from the party.
Feel free to start a thread about it.
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