UK politics

Not cycling, but still important.

Moderator: Joan

Mister Paul
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 419
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Mister Paul » 2 years ago

"Are you hopeless Mr Hancock?"

"I don't think so"
0 x

User avatar
Rutabaga
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Rutabaga » 2 years ago

Much as it's always delightful to see a Tory defeated, I wish it had been by someone other than what I believe to be a Tory wearing a yellow rosette. I admit to being utterly prejudiced against the LibDems, due to being lied to once by their local candidate and so making the huge mistake of voting for them then against my better judgement.
2 x

Iris
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 755
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Iris » 2 years ago

Wikipedia is reporting that she's been an active liberal democrat since university, and has stood a couple of times for the Lib Dems before. A successful candidate here was never going to be anything other than reasonably conservative economically.
0 x

User avatar
Rutabaga
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Rutabaga » 2 years ago

I think you might have missed my point. The party she has been active in for however many years (who cares?) has done more than most to facilitate Tory success, not least the social crime of "Austerity". I don't see their victory here as much of a triumph.
0 x

Iris
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 755
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Iris » 2 years ago

I understood your point, but I fundamentally disagree with it. Austerity was moderated by being implented by a coalition government, and then the Labour party went and chose a leader who wasn't fit for office, enabling the worst PM in my lifetime to be elected.
0 x

LowlifeDes
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by LowlifeDes » 2 years ago

The lib Dems may, or may not, have moderated austerity. The did have an alternative option though. They could have chosen to moderate some of Gordon Brown's more extreme left wing policies instead.
They chose what they chose and, in consequence, are not getting any trust or benefit of any doubt from me.
2 x

Iris
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 755
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Iris » 2 years ago

Mathematically a rainbow coalition with the non-Conservative parties was almost impossible - it would have required very nearly every single MP from Labour and the LDs and Plaid and the SNP and the Greens and the (NI) Alliance and the SDLP to support Brown to beat the combined Tories plus DUP, even allowing for the fact that

I was shocked with the speed with which the LDs entered into coalition with Cameron, but once the emotion drained out and the logic started kicking in it really was the only way to avoid a minority government.
0 x

User avatar
JohnToo
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 620
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Leatherhead

Re: UK politics

Post by JohnToo » 2 years ago

It's not just austerity though is it. There's a clear line through Nick Clegg - tuition fees - politicians blatantly demonstrating they can't be trusted - cynicism about politics - Brexit (not saying it's solely his fault before anyone misquotes me, just a contributor). Setting the cause of PR back a generation. And Facebook VP seems to me just as corrosive of trust in politicians as the things Blair and Cameron have done post-office.
0 x

Mister Paul
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 419
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Mister Paul » 2 years ago

I think that the first thing that needs to be ripped out of politics right now is this culture of being detached from reality. Al and his mates think they're in some kind of performance. Take Rees Mogg and his comments last week about Hancock. It's like watching the two actors in that episode of Blackadder 3. And Boris laughs everything off, or sticks his thumbs up, shouts "onwards to victory!" and runs out of the meeting.

I can think of plenty of previous politicians that I disagreed with but still respected the fact that they could and would engage.
1 x

Iris
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 755
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Iris » 2 years ago

JohnToo wrote:
2 years ago
It's not just austerity though is it. There's a clear line through Nick Clegg - tuition fees - politicians blatantly demonstrating they can't be trusted - cynicism about politics - Brexit (not saying it's solely his fault before anyone misquotes me, just a contributor). Setting the cause of PR back a generation. And Facebook VP seems to me just as corrosive of trust in politicians as the things Blair and Cameron have done post-office.
It's very odd that of all of the broken promises by politicians (every single politician who's ever held any kind of power has broken some kind of promise) it's Clegg's tuition fee promise that is still salient for people who are looking for a reason not to support his former party. Certain Labour party supporters seem to have forgiven Labour for some of Messrs Blair's and Brown's broken promises and post-office deeds while deciding that that one thing means they will never trust the LDs again.

This is the reality of coalition politics and PR in action - some of what you promise to get elected has to be negotiated away.

A lot of people are saying that it was the planning bill that cost the Tories last week's byelection. My best guess is that that's the same kind of partial truth as quoting Clegg's tuition fee promise - there were lots of voters looking for a reason not to vote for [x party], and grateful that there is something they can pick on.
1 x

LowlifeDes
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by LowlifeDes » 2 years ago

The Lib Dems voluntarily became lapdogs of the Tories. I really don't need to look for reasons not to vote for them.
2 x

User avatar
JohnToo
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 620
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: Leatherhead

Re: UK politics

Post by JohnToo » 2 years ago

Iris wrote:
2 years ago
It's very odd that of all of the broken promises by politicians (every single politician who's ever held any kind of power has broken some kind of promise) it's Clegg's tuition fee promise that is still salient for people who are looking for a reason not to support his former party. Certain Labour party supporters seem to have forgiven Labour for some of Messrs Blair's and Brown's broken promises and post-office deeds while deciding that that one thing means they will never trust the LDs again.

This is the reality of coalition politics and PR in action - some of what you promise to get elected has to be negotiated away.

A lot of people are saying that it was the planning bill that cost the Tories last week's byelection. My best guess is that that's the same kind of partial truth as quoting Clegg's tuition fee promise - there were lots of voters looking for a reason not to vote for [x party], and grateful that there is something they can pick on.
With respect, I think you're missing the point about tuition fees. Everyone accepts that manifestos are a statement of inent that is likely to be flexed, modified, forgotten, or just plain fallen short of in the reality of government. Clegg elevated tuition fees above mere manifesto: he directly said to the electorate, I promise you that these are things we will absolutely deliver come what may. Then promptly broke that promise.
0 x

Iris
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 755
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Iris » 2 years ago

JohnToo wrote:
2 years ago
he directly said to the electorate, I promise you that these are things we will absolutely deliver come what may.
...which is a very accurate definition of a manifesto.

It's illogical to both support PR and complain when a coalition forces promises to be abandoned.
0 x

Iris
Hero Member
Hero Member
Posts: 755
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Iris » 1 year ago

Oh fuck.
0 x

Mister Paul
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 419
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: UK politics

Post by Mister Paul » 1 year ago

Staggered
0 x

Post Reply