Bollocks to Brexit

Not cycling, but still important.

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LowlifeDes
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 5 years ago

Watching Nick Bowles resignation, fighting back his emotions, I got quite close to feeling for him, until I remembered that he is a Tory.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by ransos » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
Watching Nick Bowles resignation, fighting back his emotions, I got quite close to feeling for him, until I remembered that he is a Tory.
He's one of a handful who realize that compromise is the way out of this mess. A lesson that plenty of Remainers need to learn.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 5 years ago

ransos wrote:
5 years ago
He's one of a handful who realize that compromise is the way out of this mess. A lesson that plenty of Remainers need to learn.
As I see it, from a remain point of view, every compromise results in a form of leave. On the other hand, from a leave point of view, every compromise bar accepting remain results in a form of leave.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by ransos » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
As I see it, from a remain point of view, every compromise results in a form of leave. On the other hand, from a leave point of view, every compromise bar accepting remain results in a form of leave.
I don't think Leavers see it that way, given how few Tories voted for any of the options.
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LowlifeDes
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 5 years ago

It is similar to the argument that cyclists need to take more responsibility for their own safety, compromise is a one way street.
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Iris
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 5 years ago

Compromise in politics is never a one way street.
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ransos
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by ransos » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
It is similar to the argument that cyclists need to take more responsibility for their own safety, compromise is a one way street.
I don't really understand your point. It's a given, I think, that Leavers need to compromise. But Remainers rejecting workable options in the hope of revocation isn't helpful either.
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JohnToo
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by JohnToo » 5 years ago

I have become increasingly attracted to Norway+. It seems it would avoid the economic disaster of hard brexit. It leaves us without a say in shaping Europe. But I think we have foregone any moral right to a say, and we never used our say very constructively anyway.
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LowlifeDes
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by LowlifeDes » 5 years ago

For anyone who wishes to remain, there is no compromise to make, because it is a binary issue where any form of leave is leave. For levers there are a range of options on which they could compromise.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 5 years ago

JohnToo wrote:
5 years ago
we never used our say very constructively anyway.
That's not what many Europeans would say. As I understand it, the UK was welcomed by countries like NL and Sweden as a pragmatic counterpoint to the more ideological France. In the area of EU regulation I know best, it was the UK that drove change. The latest EU regulatory paper on conduct regulation of insurance (a profoundly unsexy but profoundly important topic), published last month, was obviously written by the UK regulator. And so on.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 5 years ago

LowlifeDes wrote:
5 years ago
For anyone who wishes to remain, there is no compromise to make, because it is a binary issue where any form of leave is leave. For levers there are a range of options on which they could compromise.
Yes, that's what you said last night. It's a fine position for those of us with the luxury of not having to make decisions. But democratic politics is all about compromise. The job of parliament is now to compromise to make the least worst decision.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Regulator » 5 years ago

Iris wrote:
5 years ago
Yes, that's what you said last night. It's a fine position for those of us with the luxury of not having to make decisions. But democratic politics is all about compromise. The job of parliament is now to compromise to make the least worst decision.
The job of Parliament is to act in the best interests of the country overall - not in their own self interests.
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Iris » 5 years ago

Regulator wrote:
5 years ago
The job of Parliament is to act in the best interests of the country overall - not in their own self interests.
Of course. I'm not saying that parliament are doing a good job. But given the shit they've stirred up, just revoking article 50 with no surrounding apparatus of compromise is not going to end well. Gordon Brown, not for the first time, has a decent idea - take a long time out and use it for constructive national discussions.
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Sonic Budgie
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by Sonic Budgie » 5 years ago

I don't quite understand, there seems to be a suggestion and dare I say some finger pointing here that if a couple of remainers had compromised just a little more then we could have squeaked this or that across the line, or if that little group had just voted for that thing and so on. Whilst that may be true it does seem to be rather ignoring the fact that several hundred Torys voted against the lot. What am I missing here?
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ransos
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Re: Bollocks to Brexit

Post by ransos » 5 years ago

Sonic Budgie wrote:
5 years ago
I don't quite understand, there seems to be a suggestion and dare I say some finger pointing here that if a couple of remainers had compromised just a little more then we could have squeaked this or that across the line, or if that little group had just voted for that thing and so on. Whilst that may be true it does seem to be rather ignoring the fact that several hundred Torys voted against the lot. What am I missing here?
Who's ignoring it? That many or even most Tories are behaving like petulant children doesn't excuse Remain MPs.

Whilst I would much prefer to remain, I applaud Clark, Grieve, Boles, Cooper, Letwin, Benn, et al, for trying to break the deadlock.
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